McCain should read this. Most probably, in his mind, Prop II ends in this little phrase “once I’m elected.”

But it’s still a highly unpalatable choice, SeeDub, because what you’re saying is: It comes down to WHO is willing to do whatever it takes to win the war. If it’s McCain, he’ll do what he has to do to get our votes … but if it’s us, we’ll do what it takes to get him elected.

Do you want to be the one to stand up and say winning the war isn’t important enough to vote McCain? I know … not yet. We’re doing nothing and letting McCain make the first move.

He should read this, but it could be a very, very ugly game of chicken, is all I’m saying.

But McCain is NOT an honorable man. An honorable man keeps his word—lives up to his oath. McCain does not!

Anwyn—Game of chicken, exactly. That’s my next post for this afternoon.

Diane—So are they all, honorable men. Politicians, that is.

“McCain’s ego and his attachement to open borders are actually greater than his commitment to winning the war.” Well, there you have it in a nut shell. If McCain’s ego was the economy, we’d all be rich. McCain has had one purpose since the stupid American voters turned him down in 2000; get even with the Republican Party who did not want him. Do you think McCain will ever admit that he just might be wrong about anything? Perhaps you should resesearch how he treated families of American POWs left behind in Vietnam when all they wanted were answers about their loved one besides “it’s classified” years after we left Saigon. Just listen to his CPAC speech where he says that we have disagreed before and will again. That wasn’t only a statement of fact, it was a warning. His “in your face, my way or the highway” attitude will only worsen when he is POTUS. Republicans will expect him to act like the conservative he claims to be. They will be sorely disappointed. and then, he will tell them the same thing he told John Cornyn, “F-you”. I have been following McCain’s career since he disembarked the plane from Hanoi. He is a ten caret opportunist who will do anything to get the Holy Grail. No one can take away from his the sacrifice he made for his nation. But we cannot forgive the things he has done since. While it may be true that McCain will reach across the aisle, it will be from the left side as he stands with his friends, Russ Feingold, Teddy Kennedy, Joe Lieberman and Juan Hernandez. No matter who wins, conservatives are screwed.

“In other words, he can start moving right if he wants to win. If he moves right, I’ll vote for him in the general. A lot of people will. But if we don’t vote for him, who will?”

You should practice saying “President Obama” right now. If a Republican candidate has to run to the right because his support there is very reluctant, he’s toast. He’ll never get the real trust of “the right,” and by running right he’ll lose potential support from those sensible souls on the left who might have been rightly frightened at the prospect of the known Hillary or the unknown Obama.

I think all signs point toward an Obama win on the basis of a completely irrational fervor for the “messiah” whose voice thrills, whose touch heals all of life’s disappointments, and whose actual presence sends the masses into ecstatic fever.

His campaign’s determined avoidance of all substantive content is precisely what a majority hunger for. They don’t want reminders of pressing realities; they want to escape into feel-good reassurances. In other words, our politics are finally catching up to, and becoming just another element of, our empty popular culture.

I’m impressed, See-Dubya. I haven’t seen the situation presented this cleverly anywhere. I can’t tell how serious you are about actually expecting him to go with II, but it doesn’t matter. You’ve made the standoff between the McCainists and the conservatives clearer than anyone I’ve seen yet. Framed it most accurately, as they say.

It’s like extrapolating the Bill Kristol moment last year: Bill Kristol, one of the most open borders pundits there is, opposed the immigration bill and suggested it be abandoned…because it was threatening the president’s ability to conduct the war. All the pundits and politicians now telling us to get in line—and also now reminding us that McCain is an honorable man—should logically have the same priorities.

I’m not at all convinced of McCain’s soundness on the war. I think he’d take care of the troops, which is good…but the war? Closing Gitmo? Outlawing specific interrogation techniques? Unserious, even if his personal biography shows the reason for it.

I’m privately convinced he supported the surge before everybody else because that’s the opposite of what Rumsfeld was doing. War is His Issue and he has to know better than everybody else. That’s not necessarily a good thing in a CiC, you know?

Anyway…can anybody tell me what the next step in the war is, right now? Because I haven’t a clue. As far as I can tell, the big war issue is how fast and how far we stand down in Iraq. That can only happen within the limits of certain physical constraints. In other words, I don’t know that there is THAT big a difference between the two sides.

If we’re talking a war of decades (and I believe we are), it may be that the next four years are a bit of a lull. It may be that 2012 is the more important election, and winning this one makes us much less likely to win that one, especially if a President McCain is a disaster.

We just can’t know. What I do know is, it’s been FIVE DAYS since Super Tuesday, and I’m supposed to take a McCain hatred I’ve been nurturing for a decade, shrug, toss it aside and say, “yeah, okay. I’m in.”

What makes anyone think I’m going to do that? We’ve got nine months — start convincing me he’s a changed man. Because I ain’t voting for the beta version.

Thanks, Alex. I don’t expect him to go too far on Conclusion II at all—in part because of the reasons Levans gave— but even GWB says he has some convincing to do. So we might be able to nudge him along on some of these issues.

I’ll post more about why I think we’ve got a tiny advantage in this chicken game Anwyn mentioned when I get a chance, so check back tomorrow or so.

A lot of pundits and politicians are telling conservatives to get in line behind McCain now—in other words, they are arguing for the truth of Conclusion I. But that’s not how I see it. The answer, if you buy the premises as I’ve laid them out, is closer to Conclusion II.

Actually, it’s somewhere in the middle, given that wholesale adoption of the base platform will make McCain an unpalatable candidate in the general election. He’s made some noises to satisfy the base, including lining up a whole bunch of endorsements and advisers who are very, very conservative. Given that many of these people will make up his cabinet and actually carry out executive functions, the base should feel a bit more confident putting up with McCain’s past transgressions and his maintenance of some positions palatable to the general electorate.

Unless conservatives don’t want Ted Olsen on the cabinet, and instead prefer, say, Sandy Berger, for example.

The WOT is the only issue that I agree with McAmnasty, if you forget about waterboarding. What good is it being in Iraq, have a presence around the world when our borders are wide open and John is cutting deals with the globalists to give blanket amnesty to all illegal aliens, even violent criminals? I don’t buy that we’re fighting the war there to keep them from invading the US because, even the FBI knows that OTMs have crossed the southern border (mostly) and are forming sleeper cells in this country—-despite our best efforts in Iraq. If Dubya has endorsed his once opponent, then there’s another reason not to vote for him. Neither of them are conservatives-end of story.

Allow me the indulgence of expanding on Conclusion II: We absolutely, positively, need to take Congress back. On the domestic side, that is where every last success the last 15 years has happened, from the (temporary) death of HillaryCare to the implementation of welfare reform to the (also temporary) death of shamnesty. Do note, all 3 came in the face of fervent opposition from the Oval Office.

Only a decade, S? McCain started agitating for the McShame-Slimeroad Lieberal Protection Act long before that.

No, the “war on terrorism” is not the most important issue, domestic issues are. Furthermore, his national security bonafides are heavily overrated - the guy is not very bright, to begin with.

That said, the only thing saving him is the opposition sucks even worse.

I, also, appreciate your clear statements of where we are as conservatives with Senator John. I would hope Concl II would be the scenario. It can only be a guess which way, at least at this point, he would go. I lean towards him for the simple reason stated the other day by a commenter on Michelle Malkin’s blog. He was prior military and his wife was still in the Navy and due to be deployed. He said he could in NO WAY give the troops Hillary or Obama as CIC. No way. I think he felt (as do I) that to do so would be, in a way, deserting them. John McCain, with all his faults, would be a far better CIC than either of the alternatives (and their faults). Might it be a possibility that JM might be pounded enough by us conservatives on matters important to us (and the US), that he might just shift to the right, and not just tokenly but actually?

“So we might be able to nudge him along on some of these issues.” Posted by See-Dubya on February 10, 2008 3:32 PM

See-Dubya - I’m sure we can “nudge him along” during the campaign. I have absolutely no faith that he will listen to any conservatives once he is President. If you can give me a good argument for McCain actually listening to Conservatives beyond his pandering during the campaign, then fine.

But actions speak louder than words. His words now do not negate his actions for the past 7 years.

That said, some actions that would go a long way would be the ones you suggested, starting with firing all on his campaign who are open-borders, anti-American sovereignty advocates. And then bringing someone on as VP who actually understands the economy and who will show him that his man-caused global warming religion is bogus and his policies for it will cripple the economy.

McCain will be McCain. In other words, he will NOT do what is right, he will do what he wants to do. And we will all suffer for it. I will not vote for John McCain. PERIOD. He will run screaming from the right, into the arms of the left as he has always done since 2000. He will re-introduce amnesty and give the Dems a giant new voting base and it is extremely doubtful he’ll put forth any conservative judges.Let the Dems ruin the country so that we can rebuild it. If we are the ones responsible for John McCain, we will ahve destroyed the GOP. I cannot in good conscience vote for John McCain.

“We absolutely, positively, need to take Congress back. [ … ] Do note, all 3 came in the face of fervent opposition from the Oval Office.”

Posted by steveegg on February 10, 2008 4:12 PM

Bingo. Finally, some rational thought. People are putting too much power in the Executive and forgetting that Congress is the check and balance on the Executive and We, the People, are the check and balance on government. The war effort will not be lost by a Clinton or Obama Administration. I don’t believe either of them would reject the military commanders when told they are succeeding and need more time. The reason Congress has not been able to cut off funds is because they know the American people do not want that. So neither Hillary nor Obama will surrender in the war effort, since they will want to appear strong for their re-election campaigns in 2012. They will not want to allow Republicans to paint them as weak on national security.

That said, I don’t believe any of them (McCain, Hillary or Obama) have any clue about the Islamization of the West that is happening all over, including in the United States. The “war on terror” is not just Iraq and Afghanistan, it is happening via creeping sharia in Britain/UK/London, Australia, Canada and even here in the United States. And our immigration policies contribute to the Islamization and lack of national security. One cannot separate illegal immigration from the war effort. And let’s not forget GTMO, “torture” legislation and granting rights to terrorists. Those things cannot be separated from the war effort either. Just supporting our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan does not mean one is “strong on the war on terror”. There are plenty of leftists who support victory in Iraq in the sense that they understand that since we are there, we need to win. But these same people are also completely ignorant and dhimmis when it comes to Islam and the Islamization of the West.

A glaring concern is just that -McCain may do what he needs to do to win the war (naive thinking to begin with)wars aren’t won by political promises by by a multitude of things -most beyond Mccains grasp!

What, specifically are McCain’s abilities. Hero that he may be, his several failures as a fighter pilot if translated to commander in chief ability (Since he’s the one implying daily that his service qualifies him, this could arguabley mean we are going to lose wars under his ineptness.

I’m more concerned about Mccain causing a war than winning one. This is a man of questionable stability when it comes to anger management and vengeance. Will he retaliate when someone like that fruitcake in Iran disses him publically? Could he handle with coolness the whacko who provokes in Venuzuela? Will the New York Times continue to love his liberalism when he becomes six gun John -the most cowboy of all presidents ever? Ask yourself if it’s not possible.

Take away that military background resume and you have Hillary or Obama.

Let us not forget some honest facts. John McCain says he is equipped to be CIC because of his military service. And yes, he did reach rank of Lt. Cmdr. But remember, the Navy is much like Harvard where if your father goes to Harvard, you are guaranteed a slot. Bot McCain’s grandfather and father were Admirals. Now, let’s look at his ability to command; he was a pilot. He commanded no one. He spent six months on the Forrestal flying missions over Vietnam, 22 to be exact. . McCain spent most of the war years at the Hanoi Hilton. Now his service rates him honor and praise. But it doesn’t make him CIC material. He is no Eisenhower. Water torture: McCain has admitted that he gave information other than name, rank and serial number to the North Vietnamese when he was tortured. He adds that he gave them false information, but the failure to rlelease the documents and records that would verify that is due to McCain, himself. The surge: McCain is saying that he was for the surge before anyone else. He also has aluded to wanting to take credit for the surge. Wrong. The surge was from a General Petraeus report on how to tackle the insurgency. . It is, and always has been, Petraeus’s baby. The border: if you think that McCain will seal the border or do anything to enforce immigration laws already on the books, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Remember, this is the man who voted for the Specter amendment that would have required permission from Mexico before we could build any part of the fence on U.S. soil. The economy: he knows zip. Unless you count his employment at his father-in-law’s Budweiser distributororship as Public Relations manager. This is going to be a long war. Joe Biden predicted 10 years, at least, in an article that appreared on his web site before the invasion. As far as Iraq is concerned, it will get better when the Iraqis decide that liberty, freedom and capitalism makes their lives better. Until then, we are just holding ground. I have watche McCain act like an attack trained pit bull for years. When his ideas are rejected, or someone disagrees with him, he takes a “take no prisoners” attitude and sets on not just to prove his opponents wrong, but to destroy them. This is what he did with family members of American POWs. But now, I am supposed to just accept the man whose actions I have despised for years and “suck it up”? Like I said, conservatives are in a lose-lose situation. The cost for McCain’s Shamnesty plan alone will drive us into a taxing rate that Americans will be unable to sustain. Remember, the minute they become “legal” residents, they are then eligible for ALL social services. As hopitals close and schools are strained to the max in border areas, you have to ask “at what cost”? How bad has it gotten when Republicans have to tell themselves that at least he is better than Obama or Hillary?

McCain has demonstrated that he marches to his own drummer. Is this the kind of man we need as president? A man who does not learn from his errors and attacks those who disagree with him as racists and xenophobes? You couldn’t pay me to support this man. I predict a Democrat sweep.

We have the countryclub GOP to thank for this mess. Its time to jettison the RINOs and faux conservatives like Specter.

In point of fact, Conclusion I does not follow from Proposition I. If the war on terror is the most important issue facing America today, then it is imperative that we secure the borders and know who is in this country at all times (which, as a practical matter, means enforcing the immigration laws). It is also imperative that we keep Gitmo open, interrogate terrorists as severely as necessary, and keep potential bad guys under surveillance here, all of which McCain opposes.

In short, we should only vote for McCain if we think that the war on terror being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan is the most important issue facing America today. But if we think the war on terror being fought in America itself and ensuring our homeland security are more important than the wars overseas, then there is really no reason at all to fall in line behind McCain, because McCain will not do what it takes to ensure homeland security.

But, would Hillary or Obama be any better at border/homeland security? I would tend to think, worse. But, the year is young. Much can happen between now and November. Pray.

WHAT IF YOU WIN THE WAR, BUT LOSE THE COUNTRY? We certainly are in dire straits. If we literally distroy the country from within by implementing failed policies, would it really matter that we won the Iraq war. The “war on terror” could possibly go on for at least a hundred years. Only a strong US will be abe to continue to fight the Islamist threat. Mccain must convert to a strong conservative agenda, or his war on terror will become irrelevant.

I think the best hope we have to light a fire under McCain’s butt to do the right thing, is for me to gather up some dry sticks, along with some remote controlled self-lighting magnesium flakes, send them to McCain wrapped within a soft seat cushion.….

Floyd;

The claim in that regard is that Clinton / Obama would face opposition by the GOP in Congress, but that McCain would not, therefore McCain would have an easier time of passing the legislation in question, and therefore, in terms of actual results, McCain would be worse.

THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CAN BEST SERVE THE CHRIST (THE LIGHT) ALONE WILL BE MADE PRESIDENT OF THE NATION!

As long as you fight a thing, it will fight you back. So let’s spend more time storming the Gates of Heaven, so to speak, pleading for God’s Divine Intervention in the coming elections, than in a futile attempt to make some individual do our will. Remember: “A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.” Shakespeare puts it this way: “Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day.”

I will not vote for John McCain. Unfortunately this means less than nothing as he has about as much chance of carrying California as I do. Still, I will not vote for the man. I do not trust him.

Mr. Hahn,

I hope that doesn’t mean you’ll carry a “Boycott the Elections” placard? God first, country second, self third, my good man! “We the people” puts the responsibility of government in the hands of the citizens. If we are content to allow the Dem to win, then it behooves us to actively vote that way, to honor the memory of those who gave their lives to secure our right to vote—even if only for the one we consider “least worst.”

In a case like this, where it’s very hard to know which candidate is the lesser evil, ask God to show you. You may be sure He hasn’t lost interest in the country that was dedicated to Him at it’s inception.

If Hillary get the delegates from MI and FL. Then it would appear that the DNC and the clintons are in collusion to steal the election from the American people.

Dear darraugh,

THERE IS NOTHING HIDDEN THAT IS NOT REVEALED THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW! AND THE LIGHT OF GOD NEVER FAILS TO REVEAL IT!

The people who voted in Michigan and Florida have every right to have their votes counted (as I’m sure you’d want to also, if you had voted in those primaries). Our six-inch intellects don’t know enough about the future to be given all authority in the control of conditions. It may be that C. can be defeated in the general, and O. wouldn’t be. Only God knows.

And God can turn the whole situation upside down and bring a Miracle of His Perfection out of it to all concerned; but not if the populace is all tied up in knots fretting over the actions of human beings. Please take your attention off other people—and put it on God! Let’s ask Him to clear the way for His Choice for President. In so doing, we use our time and energy in the best possible way; the way that helps America the most.

In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan: Ronald Reagan: “Without God, there is no virtue, because there’s no prompting of the conscience. Without God, we’re mired in the material, that flat world that tells us only what the senses perceive. Without God, there is a coarsening of the society. And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.”

Six inch intellects! Ha! I have a twelve inch intellect, at least! And that’s before I’m confronted with a novel idea or fascinating theorem.